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Great idea! May I suggest that the restaurants add automatic gratuity to the bill, to make sure the servers get adequately tipped for all the extra work (namely, cleaning) that goes in to serving kids?

Not to seem rude, but there is a way you can go out to a nice restaurant....it's called a babysitter. Believe me, your waitress will like you a lot more if you go this route.

I think it's a great idea!

I don't want to speak for waiters (since it's been years since I was one), but in this economy I would imagine the waitstaff would rather have a full restaurant full of people with babies at 5pm, than an empty restaurant with no customers. Right? Plus if there were a million babies there, nobody would be expecting perfect service! It's win win! (Dear god, I just want to eat at Corton. Is that so wrong?)

I don't think it defeats the purpose at all. Sometimes you'd just kill for a waiter to bring you terrific food, rather than get carryout (the food isn't the same) that you eat at home (and have to clean up after). I don't have kids, but I do know that they can be exhausting and it's a real psychological boost to be waited on and to eat sophisticated food. The early-bird opportunity to fill the restaurant is clearly a win for the owners, the staff, and the parents who deserve a little luxury now and again.

Again, as someone who doesn't have kids, I'd prefer to eat a little later in a more relaxed, kid-free environment. Everyone winds up happy!

I think many restaurants would be shooting themselves in the foot if they did this -- I know I wouldn't be going to that restaurant, and neither would most of the posters above me here. You can't possibly think that they could fill the place just on parents like you (and to another persons point, would you even still want to go there if they did?). I know you love your child, but get a sitter and stimulate the economy just that little bit more.

Oh... that's right. A babysitter. Nevermind!

My actual point was just to say that if all the restaurants who are doing these crazy recession specials are looking for a unique way to fill tables during super slow times- this would be an idea that may attract a clientele that is not eating out right now, but would like to. And it's people who would be happy to pay full price!

If all you baby haters were eating at these restaurants on weekdays at 5:30pm, they wouldn't need to do this! (Admittedly, I was once a baby hater too.)

When your kids grow up, you automatically lose this focus on all things kid and resume your intolerance of small children in inappropriate venues at inappropriate times. Because my two kids are grown, it is very annoying to go to a nice restaurant at 7 or 8 at night and be seated next to the girl's soccer team, all their siblings and their myopic, hard of hearing parents. I'd be happy if you dined at 4 or 5, or you could do what myself and many others here did with our little ones...call the mother in law and enjoy a night out with your wife.

One word: babysitter. And I'm a parent.

If only the people with the whining and screeching 9 month old child at Gramercy Tavern the other evening had shelled out for one.

I agree with Zach, and think it's only to a restaurant's advantage to do this. Sure, I can take my baby out to a restaurant at 5:00 on my own, no special program required. It will be nearly empty, I can contain any chaos (or sweep up the crying child and get out of there as necessary), and it's a good learning experience; the earlier I start teaching my child how to behave at a restaurant, the better.

But do I do this? Very, very rarely. It's so much easier to eat at home or arrange take-out. (Since having a baby, I learned that almost any restaurant, except for the very highest tier, will happily let you pay for a meal packed directly into to-go boxes.) However, if a restaurant reminded me that I was welcome, at a convenient time for them, I might just be lured back into the outside world...

i don't mind the newborns--most parents know them well enough to know if they are going to sleep in their carrier through the meal. it is the toddlers whose parents let them roam around the restaurant at will, or the ones old enough to be watching a dvd at the table next to me. i find it incredibly annoying to be subjected to the flickering of an lcd screen while i am trying to enjoy my meal.

Not getting a lot of love for this idea, huh?

Your suggestion could only come from someone who has never waited tables. Children *destroy* restaurants. (Maybe not when they're 2-3 months old, but soon after, and until they turn, like, eighteen.) I'd rather clean up after drunken frat boys than a bunch of kids with handfuls of parent-approved snacks and leaky sippy cups.

No, that's pretty snarky. Sorry. But c'mon. We all know that *you're* a good parent who cleans up after their well-behaved child. But all those *other* parents, well...

Why not suggest that fine dining places start doing take out, then you could eat with your child in the comfort of your own home? Still enjoy the food at least and save the cost of a babysitter.

I think this is a wonderful idea in which everyone wins--the babies, the families, the restaurants. I am surprised at the hostility level of some of the comments! If baby cries, one parent can walk with her, take her outside, whatever. If you are bothered by a crying infant, please don't have kids, and why don't YOU stay at home? I have a feeling none of these negative nancies have kids of their own.

Ooof. Touchy subject. As a non-parent and a non-fine-diner I have to say I'm torn. There are good points on both sides. Seemingly, it would be a great way for restaurants tap into a new market, but on the other hand I would absolutely freak out (internally, quietly, glaringly, seethingly) if I had made a reservation at a high end restaurant -- something I never really get to do-- and was seated next a stroller with a screeching baby. I'd be livid in a way I never would be were I eating at, say, Grand Empire Szechuan. There's something about that scale of dining that says "Adults Only". It's a combination of the prices, the type of food (that most little kids wouldn't touch) and the ambiance.

That being said, four-month-olds are pretty quiet critters unless they're crying about something. The kind of something that can likely be solved table-side like wanting to be fed or hugged or changed (okay...that last one isn't for table-side, exactly, but you know what I mean). And the bonus is that they're also small enough to be easily whisked away if crying persists. AND they're too little to leave a Cheerios Trail.
Past six months, though, the babbling and volume-testing starts up, along with the Cheerios. Even though I'll agree that baby babbling is one of the World's Best Sounds, I don't want it near my $$$ dinner.

To the commenter above, before you figure that "...it's only to a restaurant's advantage to do this...", think again: let's say there's a hot new NYC restaurant and I'm a tourist wanting to go to said restaurant so I can go home to wherever and brag about the experience. My hotel is in the neighborhood so I walk by to check it out and make a reservation. It's 5:30 and all I see are strollers. I flip through my Zagat's for a new hot spot.

All I'm saying is it's a risk either way. Few early seatings? Your restaurant is at risk. Strive to fill up with the stroller set, potentially alienating your base? Risk.

I have to agree with jesswalker. Get a babysitter.
Not fair to the other diners who did!

I won't go to Kefi anymore, because not only is it too loud and noisy, but too many people think it's Applebees and that because it's inexpensive, great to bring kids.

Dear childless people: Not everyone has family nearby or additional disposable income for babysitters. Tell me why your comfort is more important than mine.

Dear waitstaff: Having been among your ranks, I understand the mess that children make. That said, it is your JOB and it is the job you chose. Sorry it sucks that not every parent is kind enough to tip appropriately and/or clean up after their own child, but that's life. It's like a customer service rep complaining about a difficult customer - sucks, but you signed up for it. No, don't argue - you did.

I love this idea, but I'm in Utah where everyone has children. You'd have to make reservations 3 weeks in advance to get in to a child-friendly hour at an upscale joint.

It might work, it might not. Parents tend to have a higher tolerance for their own children than for other people's kids, so while they might happily tolerate their own child being a bit cranky and still call it a pleasant evening out, I doubt if any parent would want to spend big bucks at a white-tablecloth restaurant filled with cranky babies and scampering toddlers.

The other thing is that the restaurants have to consider whether an event like this is going to lose other business for them. I'm not just talking about the possible childless diners who wouldn't want to be there during kiddie hour, but also the diners who might be put off after the fact.

Children under a certain age can't control bodily functions very well, and with that comes a certain amount of diner-unfriendly aroma. This has nothing to do with liking or disliking infants and children, it's just a fact. Unless the restaurant has a magical cleaning squad that sweeps in after the kids and parent have vacated, there may be a lingering odor of diapers, baby ointments and spit-up. Even if the odors are confined to the bathrooms, it's still going to be off-putting to a lot of diners.

Along with that, you've got the heightened likelihood that kids are going to spill drinks and drop wet food and leave handprints. If the place has hard flooring and easy-to-wipe surfaces, that's one thing. But if there are soft surfaces, there are going to be wet spots that would need to be dealt with after the fact. So which do you want to sit next to, junior's spitup, or the industrial cleaning stuff they're using to get it out of the carpet?

It might be more cost effective for the high-end restaurants to partner with nearby caregivers, so parents could drop the kids off, have a nice dinner, and perhaps get a good rate on the babysitting as a package deal with the restaurant.

missbhavens: I don't know if maybe that page is missing from my manual but I don't seem to see anything that says parenting and dining out are mutually exclusive.

You're not missing any pages, anwoodward, and in no way do I think that parenting and dining out are mutually exclusive. Nor do I think that anyone here actually believes that childless people are entitled to a higher level of dining comfort than parents.

For you to imply that waiters simply have to suck it up because they made the choice to be waiters but parents don't have to suck it up and forgo restaurants with $40 entrees for a couple of years even though they made the choice to be parents is pretty silly. Hence my follow-up.

Mr. Brooks' post inquires about a seemingly simple solution to a personal problem: dude misses really good restaurants. That's all this is really about.

Your comment, on the other hand, opens the whole can of ugly worms regarding the rights of parents and how they seem to differ from the rights on the childless.

Not touching that any further. Food, restaurants=yes. Modern cultural attitudes toward parenting? No thanks.

@Zach congratulations on the new baby. I remember when my sister and her husband had their first baby and we still managed to go out to nice places for lunch and even dinner because the baby was really good and would pretty much sleep through the entire meal. Usually. From about 9 months old dining out becomes a challenge because most are becoming quite grabby and exploring everything with hands and mouth and must SQUEEEE to let you know just how exciting their discoveries are. And that means one of the adult diners gets to hold the baby or feed the baby or keep the baby occupied whilst the other adult actually gets to eat...until they're done and it's the other person's turn to eat...the food that has now gotten cold. Why would you go to a NICE restaurant for that sort of experience?

I think having an official fine dining Baby Hour is pointless. There is no actual prohibition on parents bringing their children into any establishment. If you are uncomfortable bringing your children into an establishment then that is not the environment for your children.

Goodness, am I the only parent to who cleans up after their kid? I have a sixteen month old and if she did make a mess, you would find me on my hands and knees cleaning it up. That said, her mess is usually contained to used napkin or a straw. She eats everything in sight...no waste!

Fine dining is a treat, one that we don't get to indulge in often. While I love my child to death, I would much rather her be at home with Oma so my hubby and I can have a peacefull evening!

That being said.....

If you have a problem with babies in a resturants, I think YOU should be the one ordering the take out...after all, you are the one with the issue, not me :)

I appreciate a good meal out. I plan on having kids in the not so distant future. I probably don't want to be spending an extra $50 for a babysitter every time that I want to go out.

So does this mean I have to go to applebees for the next 18 years?! I'd rather not have kids than live like that! I'd much rather my children grow up to be able to eat the food and conduct themselves properly in a nice restaurant, rather than grow up thinking that applebees is the standard for food OR behavior. The idea that it's applebees or nothing is appaling to me.

There is no reason that children shouldn't learn to behave properly in a fine dining establishment from the very beginning. They won't be perfect every time, but they need to learn, and by the time they're teenagers it's way too late. It would also be up to the parents to take the kid outside if they're acting up.

Is the unspoken second part of this idea that after the family friendly hour is up, children of a certain age will not be admitted? That's really the only way something like this works.

Let's face it, it's the nice, rule abiding parents who would show up at the appropriate hour that are the ones who are teaching their children proper dining-in-public behavior. This idea is great for them because it's a way to let the kids take those first steps into grownup social interaction without the horror of spoiling another patron's dinner.

If this kind of thing wouldn't establish that outside specific family seatings children are not allowed, it falls apart. The kind of people who are going to ignore the family hour are exactly the kind the rest of us--with our without children--do not want to find ourselves sharing a restaurant with!

missbhavens: I think I expressed myself poorly, I definitely don't want to open that particular jar. As the parent of a toddler and with a newborn a month away, I am constantly mourning the fact that I feel obligated to avoid the great Asian restaurant down the street and as such am quick to jump into the entitlement argument (which, for what it's worth, has no winner - parents and the child-free simply coexist, neither with more rights than the other).

I still disagree about waitstaff though. :)

Future Foodies of America, in Seattle, has organized a "Family Dining Series" rotating through some of the nicer restaurants in Seattle. Don't like kids? Don't eat at these restaurants on these nights:
Future Foodies of America

I think this is a great idea! I created a Family Dining Series through my social network, Future Foodies (http://futurefoodies.ning.com), that invites some of Seattle's best restaurants to offer a designated family night. I don't see what the issue is if there is a designated night or time of evening. Then the kid haters can just avoid that time.

Look, I'm going to have to play the I-hate-babies-more-than-you card here. No, really. I had my tubes tied at 25. Any of you had horribly painful surgery because you hate kids? No, because that would be crazy. Ahem.
Anyways, my point: This is a great idea. I don't want parents to give up dining out. I don't want them to have to lock their children up at home for the next 10-25 years either. But I really, really don't want to listen to even one god damn scream from a baby when I am paying money to have other people make and bring me food in a peaceful environment. So yes, please, have a lovely meal with your child at the restaurant of your choosing. I will make it my business to find out when I need to avoid the place. Just like I do with live %$#@*& music.

hey, my dogs are better behaved than some of the kids i've seen in restaurants.....

i think it's great if your children are old enough to sit and enjoy the meal with the family.... but why would you want to inflict your own children to sitting through that 2 hour experience when they'd rather be playing or running around outside.

i've seen too many kids running amuk in restaurants -- dangerous for them and for others.... while the parents sat and acted like the restaurant was one big baby sitting service. it annoys other diners who also PAY for their dinners..... how about those folks?

it's rude to go into someone's house, make a mess and lots of noise....
why isn't it rude for parents to allow their kids to do this in restaurants?

it has nothing to do with leaving a big tip - or paying $$$ for a meal.... if you are disturbing other people it's just plain RUDE.

RUDE. RUDE. RUDE.

IT'S DINNER .... NOT AN EGO TRIP ABOUT YOUR PRECIOUS KIDS. AND IT'S NOT RIGHT TO INFLICT YOUR KIDS TO BEHAVING A CERTAIN WAY WHEN THEY'RE TOO YOUNG TO UNDERSTAND.

i'm not a baby hater either - but here are some points to consider:

if you don't have additional income to cover a babysitter, maybe you should be cooking at home and saving money. what about the notion that eating out is something special and should be reserved for special occasions? maybe some parents should teach their children the value of the 'dinner' table at home with the family, rather than eating out.

who wants to eat an expensive meal with a baby in her lap? i certainly wouldn't want to try to weilding a knife and fork while reaching over a baby's head. it just doesn't occur to me that i could enjoy a dinner out if i had to tend to a child. i would much prefer to be in the comfort of my own home.

and lastly, having been a server and worked in the restaurant industry, i supposed i'm biased after having cleaned more than enough tables post child-dining. i don't wish that upon anyone.

Our favorite restaurant in San Francisco, Chenery Park, did a weekly family night every Tuesday. They were ideally suited for it with a large seating area up a set of steps and a small bar (5 or 6 seats) and maybe 5 tables downstairs. It was well publicized and the place was packed every week. One way they encouraged non-baby toting diners to come along was that Tuesday was also Fried Chicken Night. Thus, my wife and I were often at Chenery Park on Tuesdays despite not having children. From our vantage point it looked like everyone was really enjoying themselves. The managers had stickers and metallic star stickers for the kids and coloring books and crayons and such. The service was just as professional and efficient as always, the food was great and the whole thing just worked.

A microbrew place (with a full restaurant) down the street from us tried having "family time" when families with kids were especially welcome (toys and what not were placed in a designated area of the room) on Sundays from like 2-6 or something, with a kid friendly buffet. So, we stopped going at that day and time. I'm not interested in sharing my beer and nacho time with toddlers. Recently, however, we stopped in (because we forgot) and apparently they have no longer continued this practice on Sundays. Other people must have felt the same way we did.

Jesswalker, you read my mind. Clearly, Zach can afford a sitter. For parents who can't, I guess you will miss out. Millions of parents survived without $200 meals for a few years.

But if parents are going to insist on bringing their spawn where they know they aren't welcome, then for my sake, yes, please, let's have a baby seating. Not only will it help restaurants bring in the parents, but it will minimze them during the grown-up dinner hour. I'm not shy about walking out of a restaurant if I spot a rugrat; in addition to food, I pay for ambience. Parents - I know, I know, you just "tune them out." Guess what? The rest of us don't. And don't want to. And shouldn't have to. And no, I'm not a baby hater, I rather enjoy spending time with well behaved in appropriate situations. I do, however, hate parents that foist their children on innocent bystanders in situations that are clearly not meant for families (e.g. fine dining, adult-themed movies, beer-volleyball leagues, wine tasting parties...). Your baby is not the cutest/smartest/best behaved/best dressed/best anything baby. Yes, your baby is your world, as it should be. But it isn't my world.

wow... i feel a lot less like a terrible person after reading this. my bf and i are are the type who will ask to be moved to another table if we're seated next to kids, which i always feel bad about... but our money is precious and after a hard day at work, we just want a nice meal out without having to listen to babbling and screaming. also, it disgusts me to see parents who let their kid eat stuff like a waffle with syrup RIGHT OFF THE TABLE, or mash their food up and throw it on the floor... just utter disrespect for the people who work there.
i guess i didnt weigh in on the question at hand... i dont have much of an opinion on the issue... really im having a hard time wrapping my head around a $200 dinner.

Brilliant idea!! Necessity truly is the mother of invention.

You can't have it all. Fine dining and bars are for grown ups and are not to be considered make shift daycare centers/ personal cantines. Some of the posters on this board sound a little selfish and it doesn't seem like they have adjusted to the idea that life changes when you have children. There are certain luxuries you have to give up when kids arrive and dining out at high end restaurants is one of them. From a business stand point "baby seating' is a bad idea. Double the people, double the work with only half the pay out makes no sense. Babies don't eat full portions but take up the space of someone who does.
I love kids but I'm with the other posters who say get a sitter and if you can't afford one than you need to prioritize.

Just as I would never dream of going to a Mommy TIme Movie, I would take the same approach if I knew a restaurant was setting aside Tot Time. I just wouldn't go.

I dunno, I guess I'm of the school of thought that having children isn't mandatory -- it's a person or a couple's choice. And, with all choices come compromises and consequences, one of them being that you may not get to do the things you were used to doing before you had kids. Or, that you have to have a more detailed budget/money discussion even before having kids; because factoring in the cost of a babysitter one night a week (or month) is something parents should do not just for the sake of others around them on a night out, but for themselves to have their own time alone without the kid in tow. It's allowed, you know...

The impolitic answer is that it depends on the baby. I don't have children, but a clean, quiet child with parents who don't shove the kid in your face is no big deal. A whining, screaming child with parents who change the child within sight and smell, who grabs at you and then gets you admonished because you ignore the kid rather than 'make friends' is a nightmare. Probably the best solution is for the restaurant to reserve the right to ask the parent to step out with the child if it is proving to be a distraction.

@joc1234 - To be honest, I didn't write this post to start a "should babies be allowed in fancy restaurants" argument. I actually don't think they should. And that's why we've avoided nice dinners, at fancy restaurants, with our newborn. Even for 5 p.m. seatings... which a lot of restaurants would probably be ok with. I just feel bad. I don't think people should bring babies to restaurants.

That being said, so many restaurants are struggling in this economy to attract customers, that I suggested this idea more for restaurants than parents. The idea being that rather than introducing recession specials to lure in your normal customer base, looking for a bargain- why not do something that would attract a whole new set of customers. Customers who would be more than happy to pay full price, for the privilege of not feeling guilty bring their child someplace where he or she wasn't welcome.

I figured if you did it a) at a time when the restaurant is already having trouble luring people in (first seating on a weekday perhaps?) and b) let customers without children know when they try to make reservations during this once a week or once a month time slot that it has been set aside for families with children, and they are more than welcome to dine during that time but there will be a lot of families there.

That's it! I actually don't think babies should be welcomed at fancy restaurants... but if those restaurants are empty anyway at 5pm on a Weds, I'd be more than glad to eat there if they wanted to welcome me with open arms!

Remember when you take a young child out that you should tip a higher precentage than normal because the server has to do much, much, much more work for a parent and one child than they do for two adults. At the same time the total cost of the bill goes down so the server makes less money. Also, anything you bring in for the child (toys, snacks, etc.) should leave with you. Cleaning up after your child's mess is not now nor has ever it been part of the price of a meal. A happy, well-behaved child is a treasure in a restaurant.

My brother and I grew up going to "fancy" restaurants. We both started going when we were infants. Being 12 years older than my bro, I remember that if he got fussy (which was in all honesty, not very often), he'd be whisked off by our dad. They did not want to ruin anyone's dinner, so my mom and I would finish our meal in peace and get my dad's meal to go. By the time we were five, we knew to behave and be pleasant or we would not get to go. And who would want to miss out on a fantastic dinner?!

My parents were smart. We'd go around 5ish and leave early. Another tip from them is that if we weren't behaving or feeling well, we didn't get to go at all and our nanny would stay with us. Parents should definitely take note on this! I can't stand going ANY WHERE and you have a whiny kid in the nearby vicinity. Parents nowadays seem to think that either their kid is an angel or "cute" and DISCIPLINE is not in their vocabulary.

Also, do your server a favor and clean up after your mess maker or if you won't do that, at least leave a big tip!

After all that I've said, I do agree with the original post - restaurants should think about having a "family night". Children can begin learning "restaurant manners" without the rest of us sacrificing our night out.

future foodies is a group that arranges restaurant seatings for families with young children. their focus is a bit different - to encourage adventurous palates in the youngsters - but it sounds like it would be quite compatible with your idea
http://futurefoodies.ning.com/